Shaming Language

Atheist feminist leftist blogger P.Z. Myers has a post up called “For the boys with boo-boos”. The text is short enough for me to reproduce here in its entirety.

We have a thread on female genital mutilation, and a few boys are insisting on turning it into a discussion of the damage done to their pee-pees by circumcision. For the record, I agree with you: circumcision is mutilation, too, and it shouldn't be done, and doctors shouldn't be collaborating in such a primitive and barbarous practice on children — like piercings and tattoos, it should only be practiced on consenting adults. Except that it's even crazier than a tattoo.

However, FGM is a much more serious problem that causes great pain, destroys most of the capacity for sexual response, and is a tool used to control and oppress women. There is no comparison between FGM and circumcision, and it is annoying to see boys intruding on a thread about a serious political and social issue to insist that everyone look at their little boo-boo.

Yes, I am belittling your loss, because compared to what mutilated women have lost, it's goddamned trivial.

But since some of you are so insistent on demanding that your tallywhackers must be privileged with sympathy, this thread is for you. Go ahead, tell us in all the detail you want how sad you are that your sensitivity has been reduced and that you were tortured for a bit when you were a baby, all true, and I'll even concede right here that it is a genuine problem that ought to be stopped.

Ladies, I suggest that you just ignore this thread. This one is for all the hormonal little guys who need a place to hold hands and cry together.

Get a load of that shaming language. This man, even though he agrees that male circumcision is wrong, is so programmed to grovel at the feet of any female cause and to denigrate males can do no other than couch his agreement in some of the most sickly shaming language I’ve seen.

damage done to their pee-pees

to insist that everyone look at their little boo-boo.

tell us in all the detail you want how sad you are that your sensitivity has been reduced

Ladies, I suggest that you just ignore this thread. This one is for all the hormonal little guys who need a place to hold hands and cry together.

You can’t please the left. On one hand we’re all supposed to find our feminine side and cry more. However, they have complete license to use that against us when we don’t please them.

The only thing he missed was the phrase “act like a man” and it would have been complete.

Now, circumcision is not the most important issue for me. Some have emailed me with a lot of passion about the subject but I find myself unable to really care. Also, FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) is much worse than MGM (Male Genital Mutilation) but this post is not about that. It’s about how the left treats male causes. With contempt.

Any man on the normative modern left really needs to reconsider why they’re there.

Posted on: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:33 AM
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Comments

  1. Posted by: TDOM on 5/7/2010 6:05 PM
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    Typical feminsit crap. "Our problems are worse than your problems so your problems don't matter and we don't care about them or you."

    -TDOM
  2. Posted by: Pankaj on 5/8/2010 2:57 PM
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    If people whose problems shouldn't matter in face of larger(or seemingly larger) problems - will the feminists just shut up and go home if shown larger problems than their petty ones? I have a weird feeling that they would not and they do not.

    By the way, I totally disagree that FGM is "much worse" than MGM. For one, there is not one generic "FGM" - there are many degrees of it, some of it admittedly worse. Second it is NEVER performed on new born babies. If consent is any issue a baby is far less capable of consenting in anyway. A young girl can at least choose to runaway (even though this isn't the best "chance" persay, but it is the best available) from her mutilating parents before they act. A baby has no such chance.
  3. Posted by: Noobius on 5/8/2010 3:14 PM
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    Wasn't it shown that it's mostly the female family members that insist on this done? Or am I thinking of something else?

    Is FGM even practiced in the West? If it isn't, then clearly MGM is a bigger problem since that is practiced there. If feminists think it's such a big deal they should go to where it's actually done and try to change people's minds. I'm guessing they'll be killed in a matter of minutes for their heresy, but that's a different story.
  4. Posted by: ArgusEyes on 5/9/2010 2:54 AM
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    @Noobius: “Is FGM even practiced in the West?”

    Sort of. If you read the first article on FGM that Myers wrote, which is here:

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/whatever_happened_to_first_do.php

    It refers to “federal and state laws” and a resolution by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) to allow FGM.

    @Pankaj:

    I have to disagree with what you wrote about FGM not necessarily being worse. The rational for FGM is much less than MGM, what with it being purely ritualistic whereas circumcision can reduce HIV (or so I’ve heard, I’m not educated enough on this topic to hang my hat on that statement with absolute conviction). Also, you don’t have a memory from when you’re a baby. If I were circumcised as a baby I’d have to victimise myself after the fact working backwards in order to become aggrieved about being circumcised. A young girl will have the memory of fear and pain going onwards into adulthood.
  5. Posted by: Noobius on 5/9/2010 3:24 PM
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    Ok, clearly I'm not very familiar with medical practice in the West, but from my understanding (at least in the US) circumcision is a sort of default procedure. Is FGM the same? That article doesn't give any numbers.
  6. Posted by: Pankaj on 5/10/2010 6:23 PM
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    I understand that you would disagree. And it certainly is no good basis for comparison between two barbaric practices. How ever I would like to point out that MGM is also purely ritualistic. Some muslims allow their sons to grow up too.. in which case MGM becomes almost precisely like the most common FGM (removal of clitoral hood).

    The HIV prevention benefit is a hoax in my reading of the literature.

    Also, Even if the victimized baby cannot remember.. would the same be okay with female babies? Would circumcising female babies be okay too? Obviously not - or so I think. Check the laws - babies forgetting is no criteria to excuse FGM in the western countries.

    Again - Like I said before - there are reasons to believe either way. I just wanted to put forth some things to think about.
  7. Posted by: Pankaj on 5/10/2010 6:27 PM
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    To make it really simple.

    Either it is okay to cut of perfectly healthy body parts from people who cannot consent and cannot resist OR it is not.

    For me - the answer is always no. And the more a victim is helpless - the worse the crime looks to me.
  8. Posted by: menareangrynow on 5/14/2010 1:42 AM
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    @Argus

    "Also, FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) is much worse than MGM (Male Genital Mutilation) but this post is not about that. It’s about how the left treats male causes. With contempt."

    Why do you say that? I think they're both equally bad for ethical concerns I have; but, why do you think one is worse than the other?
  9. Posted by: ArgusEyes on 5/15/2010 8:18 AM
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    @menareangrynow:
    I say that based upon accounts of FGM that I have read, which seem to be more horrifying than MGM. I also think that having it done to girls is worse than baby boys as you can rember the pain of it.
  10. Posted by: Pankaj on 5/16/2010 5:21 AM
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    Mark, it seems you have a perception of FGM has been shaped by stories told by anti-FGM activists who often cite the worst case scenarios and lead readers to believe that is the most common case - which is certainly not the case. I have also had it argued that because babies in west can get anasthetics, MGM is not an issue - but subsaharan girls are victimized without such, its a travesty.

    As much as I wish for their efforts to succeed - i.e. in stopping FGM, I also understand that this has become more of a leverage in western countries to sideswipe and trivialize MGM, with little to no effect where FGM actually occurs!

    Apparently, FGM occuring in far away lands is more important than MGM that occurs right at home and with full support of prevailing laws. This is a classic example of "don't help men yet, because some woman some where might have it worse" attitude of the feminized left.

    I understand you sympathize more with a girl and the impact FGM has on her life - but try not to trivialize MGM by presenting arguments like "babies-don't-remember". If you really want to go that way, dare to say that circumcising infant girls instead of girls that can remember is a better option (which ironically is considered barbaric even by those that practice FGM!). And if you cannot really say that.. then rethink your stance and kindly drop the "babies-don't-remember" case. If you did not know, this argument is a clone of "babies-don't-feel-pain" argument that the pro-circ MEDICAL community espoused not so long ago. Yes, even doctors held this as a scientific fact.. who knows tomorrow they will discover that babies indeed do remember infant circumcision.
  11. Posted by: TDOM on 5/16/2010 3:27 PM
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    In the movement to ban the practice of FGM, it would seem that ignoring MGM would be bad strategy. If one attacks the most acceptable forms of circumcision, the wouldn't the more unacceptable forms become even more unacceptable?

    -TDOM
  12. Posted by: bob on 5/17/2010 3:20 PM
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    "This is a classic example of "don't help men yet, because some woman some where might have it worse" attitude of the feminized left."

    "Not all Muslims are collectivist thinkers, so when you decide to rise against the retards, please spare the good Muslims."

    Are you saying that someone should not be anti-Muslim, because some Muslim some where might be good?

  13. Posted by: Pankaj on 5/17/2010 5:52 PM
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    "Are you saying that someone should not be anti-Muslim, because some Muslim some where might be good?"

    As if this needs an answer - Yes! Coming from an individualist, this means I am recommending not to be against an entire group (of whom you have not met a HUGE majority) and yet you are/orshouldbe free to oppose those that try to invade/violate your property rights, with reasonable restraint and the proportional and deadly force where necessary. But if you look at things that way, the "liberal christians" politicians (as well as "conservative christian" politicians) and their supporters in the west are more of the problem than muslims themselves.
  14. Posted by: someguy on 5/29/2010 8:35 AM
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    As an atheist I tend to like PZs blog, but check out his latest misrepresentation of the MRM on his blog:
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/you_can_tell_where_this_is_goi.php

    Then, scroll down to the comment section to see the kind of nonsense the lefties are saying.
    Stuff along the lines of "women are treated as second class citizens from birth, told they're worthless etc etc.. that's why we need affirmative action in universities, schools, workplaces..."
    To form an economic argument against them (there is also a moral one); look at what happened when the US decided it was a good idea to subsidise and over-regulate the 'sub-prime' market for real-estate.... What do they think will happen to the economy if the supply in the labour-market is subject to quotas, price-floors and heavy regulation? All in the name of "equality"; taking the feminist meaning of the term: *equality*: "to push down men to pull women up".

    What ever happened to 'the best person for the job'; now it's 'the best person for the job, if you already have reached your quota of women who may not even be qualified enough for the job'.

    Anyway, the user 'Jadehawk' seems to be pioneering this idea (her blog:http://jadehawks.wordpress.com/) on that site; as well as many of the other lefties on that site.

    Also, have you noticed that when it comes to women's rights, the left can't seem to apologise enough (especially for the stuff they've no reason to apologise for). Everyone over there is taking what these women say on face-value, why don't they apply the same skepticism to these women as they would to a creationist? It seems if a woman says 'all women have it harder growing up' the pharygulites will say 'oh... yes, I take your word..I'm so ashamed of my gender for oppressing you'. Applauding her herculean efforts to overcome adversity in the face of Cosmopolitan magazine covers and the time that one guy at a construction site whistled at her.. *tear* what an inspiration to us all.

    P.s keep up the great work! I really like your stuff; especially your youtube videos!
  15. Posted by: ArgusEyes on 5/30/2010 7:45 AM
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    @someguy

    Interesting that you linked to that. I read Pharyngula every day and I have a half-finished blog post draft that I started on that post. I'll tidy it up and post the thing now (posted).

    P.S. Thanks.
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