It's just intellectually irresponsible and ridiculous for you to use this example ... that has nothing to do with rape ... to say that women lie about rape. I could along the same lines hold up a picture of a man who lied about something and say, see! This is evidence that men rape women and then lie about it!! I think that situation does happen, but it's unrelated to some individual man lying about something that has nothing to do with rape. Dumbass. The feminists I know would readily admit that women can lie ... we just are not interested in using that as evidence that women lying about rape is a widespread epidemic.

-It's just intellectually irresponsible and ridiculous for you to use this example ... .-

Yes, how dare he cite an incident of a woman lying to prove that women can be dishonest.

-that has nothing to do with rape ... to say that women lie about rape-

Is that why he follows it with an example of the lacross team? The men were immediately assumed guilty. They were kicked out of college without even being convicted for the crime and even after it was proven that the woman's story kept changing, they were still assumed to be rapists. In fact, in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty, they pretty much had to prove that it was physically impossible for the men to have raped her. In order to clear them, the Attorny fucking General had to go out and say that the boys were not guilty.

And what did Rosie do when she heard this? That the men were incapable of raping her? Oh, she said they had to of done it.

-I could along the same lines hold up a picture of a man who lied about something and say, see! This is evidence that men rape women and then lie about it!!-

What? Clearly your incapable of rational thought. Of course men are capable of raping women and lying about it. They're even capable of making false rape charges.

However, when women claim that no woman would ever lie about being raped...and then women are found to have been lying about rape...well, it's rather telling, isn't it?


-I think that situation does happen, but it's unrelated to some individual man lying about something that has nothing to do with rape. Dumbass.-

Yeah, because a lacross team being falsly accused of raping a woman clearly has nothing to do with women falsly accusing men of rape, right?

Again, try thinking. It does wonders.


-The feminists I know would readily admit that women can lie ... we just are not interested in using that as evidence that women lying about rape is a widespread epidemic.-

Yeah, because they caused it. They want women to go overboard about what rape is. You want to know what rape is? That's when a man holds you down and physically forces you to have sex. That is rape. Rape is not a guy who oversteps a woman's boundries and immediately backs off. Rape is not a woman being reluctant to having sex and then deciding that afterwards, she didn't enjoy it.

Face it. Women can be dishonest and they are dishonest, just like men. And because they're capable of being dishonest, then they're capable of claiming rape.

I'm not getting into a discussion of the definition of rape with you. My point here is that putting this woman's face to represent a post about false rape claims is ridiculous. I also was not dealing in any way with the example of the lacrosse team. If you want to talk about what happened with that case, then do it (without using it as an example to try to illegitimize rape advocacy). But the woman who lied about wanting tattoos is unrelated.

Dear na,

“It's just intellectually irresponsible and ridiculous for you to use this example ... that has nothing to do with rape ...”

I believe I explained myself adequately. This is an example of how females can lie to cover themselves against embarrassment or mistakes. Then I parallel it to rape.

“ to say that women lie about rape. I could along the same lines hold up a picture of a man who lied about something and say, see!”

Yes you could. It would be ridiculous to point out that men can lie. Right?
Except, there is a powerful faith based religious movement called feminism which actively pushes the meme that women don’t lie about rape. So people like I have to come out and explain the obvious even though it may seem silly, because people can believe fucking stupid things.

“This is evidence that men rape women and then lie about it!!”

No, this is evidence that women can lie, which I am using to illustrate rape and how many feminists say women cannot lie about it.

“I think that situation does happen, but it's unrelated to some individual man lying about something that has nothing to do with rape. Dumbass. The feminists I know would readily admit that women can lie ... we just are not interested in using that as evidence that women lying about rape is a widespread epidemic.”

I didn’t make such a claim, and your post was an ignorant hysterical overly emotional screed. Thanks for writing.

I understood perfectly well the argument you were trying to make. But it's a weak one. I don't know any feminists that say women never lie about rape. But if they are out there, I'm going to assume that they would not say a woman never lies about anything. It seems like you would agree, since you carefully note that feminists claim women never lie about rape specifically. So why would you use an example of a young woman who lied about something not involving rape (which they would agree can happen) to prove that they can lie about rape (which they supposedly do not agree with). It's for propaganda effects and would only work to fuel those who already agree with your viewpoint. In other words, the ability of your argument to convince relies on an emotional response detached from any intellectual analysis. It's not a logical argument that would convince your opponents. That's what makes your post ignorant. You think you're proving something, but you're not.

The point of the article is that people do lie for a variety of reasons and for lesser or greater issues. Also at point is that some are legally empowered to lie (women) and that others (men) shoulder a greater burden of proof.

Given that with the "rape-shield" laws there is absolutely NO CONSEQUENCE (in some areas) for making a false rape allegation, what disincentive is there to not make one for the purpose of covering up an affair, pregnancy, late night, boredom etc?

None.

If feminists were truly about "equality" not "ekwallytie" they would demand that both the victim AND the alleged perpetrator were anonymous until after the verdict - if guilty then publish the man's name, if not guilty publish no-ones name, if a charge of filing a false report is laid on the accuser (or recantation AFTER arrest) - publish the woman's name.

Also in the case of a truly false and malicious report, there must be redress for the costs to the man in defence of the charges and other damages available. After all a woman can sue her rapist for damages, a man should be able to sue a fraudster for damages too.

Regards.

Very disappointing post. Perhaps there is an argument to be made that some women do lie about rape, but one woman lying about a tattoo is very different to rape and the circumstances surrounding rape. I do believe there should be more privacy for both the victim and accused in rape cases, but I don't think this post contributes anything positive to the situtation.

I am a feminist, but my feminism is not about stating that women are always right, and men are always wrong. Instead, I prefer the idea that all people, regardless of gender/race/sexual preference are judged on their character rather than what they are. I don't believe all men are rapists, just as I don't believe all women tell the truth all the time. However, rape is already stigmatised and hard to talk about for many women. To post a completely unrelated picture and story, and then paint ALL women with the same brush and start talking about rape is irresponsible and unintelligent.

First, let me thank you for the link to our site.

Second, while I understand the corrollary you are making, I don't think it is fair to compare this lie, to a false rape accusation. A false rape accusation is much more damaging than anything this girls lie will accomplish.


Stealhmodeon hits it square on the head. I would like to add one thing though.

what disincentive is there to not make one for the purpose of covering up an affair, pregnancy, late night, boredom etc?

None.

Absolutely correct. Most people aren't aware of it, but via many shelters in the U.S. and via the Criminal Injuries Compensation in the U.K., there are funds available to those who are raped (or just claim they were). Couple that with the lack of punishment for false accusers, and you have instituted a system that is ripe for abuse and false accusations.

When you consider that false rape accusations target, almost exclusively, men, it really is a telling thing as to how feminism, and society in general view men. Second class citizens is being rather lenient, in my view.

Rachel,

Anonymity should be mandated. It's funny, but the media isn't forced to keep names of rape accusers anonymous, unless mandated by the court. They choose to do so.

Yet they have no compunction about spreading the name and even address of someone that is either just a suspect, or just accused (not convicted). So much for the 4th estate's being purveyors of the truth, and having any kind of journalistic integrity.

All the best,

E. Steven Berkimer
www.falserapesociety.blogspot.com

Thanks for giving us your view Mr. Berkimer.

I don't believe all men are rapists, I also don't believe all women tell the truth all the time.
But this is a crappy example, boys use similar excuses to parents when they do stupid things like that.

What do you have against women? Have you had many liar women in your life?

people probably do lie about rape, just as rapists lie about committing rape. But I;m quite disturbed that what you seem to be saying is; look this woman lied about something, therefor women lie about being rape.

I can't image how awful being falsely accused of rape is. It's probably as bad as being raped and then called a liar.

No, everyone who keeps jumping to the conclusion that he is saying ALL women lie about rape need only to read what was written again to clarify. No where did he say this woman lied, therefore all woman lied about rape. To put words in his mouth and spin such a strawman argument is shameful and dishonest feminist tactic that won't work here. What he said was that this situation is very similar and parallels that of false rape claims. The woman does something that she regrets, and when questioned about it by her parents instead of coming clean and taking responsibility for her actions, instead decides to avoid responsibility by claiming to be the victim and dragging down some poor random guy who did absolutely nothing. IN this case, the girl got stars she regretted and decided to lie about the tattoo artist being at fault when it was her mistake. This is very similar to cases of false rape claims where women choose to have consensual sex with men, and when confronted by parents decide instead of being "equal" to men and taking responsibility, would rather play the victim card and send some poor guy who did nothing wrong to jail. Thats whats hes talking about and I agree 100%

I have posted an expanded version of this article here:
http://www.true-equality.net/archive/2009/08/20/the-lies-of-a-female.-expanded.aspx