Feminism and the left

posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 3:12 AM

You know, I used to be subscribed to Feministing so I could get their latest videos but they blocked me so I have to remember to occasionally check back to see what those gals are getting themselves up to.

I checked back today and I see that they have indeed been busy, they have 4 new videos since I last looked, and I took a look at the titles and had a little thought, and that is that I was once criticised by a commenter because I had dared to say that feminism is normally associated with the political left.

I would have thought that the association between feminism and the left was obvious on the face of it – like looking at a tree and saying “that’s green”. And then meeting someone who says “how can you say that”. It’s as plain as the nose on my face and the person who cannot see that

I listen and watch hundreds of pieces, be it video or articles, on feminism and gender in politics every week. And there is one piece that I am kicking myself that I didn’t save, I have looked for it and cannot remember where I saw it originally so I will have to describe it to you. There was a video interview with someone who was a member of the national organisation for women, this was back when Hillary Clinton was still in the running and she was commenting on feminists and the political candidates that they support and she made the point that Feminists don’t always support the female candidate. And she cited a number of examples from the past where her organisation supported a man over the women, when the man was a democrat and the woman was a republican. I don’t think she even realised when she was saying it how much of an admission she was making. To a feminist, the one thing that will trump gender is politics.

There are many left politicians who confess their feminist leanings, not just saying they support feminism because a political candidate would be committing political suicide if they criticised feminism, but actually fully embracing and being a feminist, Hillary Clinton is a great example of this.

Feminists normally shill for the left political candidate. After Hillary was gone they reluctantly shifted to Obama. And whilst we are on Obama. Try this on for size. Type “feminists for Obama” into Google, you’ll get a bevy of support for him. Type “feminists for john McCain” and the Feministing videos which say “fuck you” to him will show up in the first and second places.

Go to a feminist’s blog and look at the advertising all over the place

Look at some of the different types of feminism. There’s socialist feminism, there’s Marxist feminism, there’s a very small subset which I agree with, called individual feminism and if you type “conservative feminism” into Google then all you will get is people laughing at the term and calling it an oxymoron.

Which political persuasion is likely to appeal to the feminist mindset more? The right? With its tendency towards personal rights and responsibilities, smaller government, more individual freedom?

Or the left? With its tendency toward equality as an encompassing whole, more government fiddling of the figures and the governmental intrusion to instigate social programs to change the sheep like masses until we finally reach utopia.

And in case you’re wondering, yes, I did insert my own personal bias in there. An in-depth discussion of the right/left political mindset is a topic that has been discussed by many greater than I. And is a topic for another day.

But it is clear to see that of the right/left mindset, the victim based worldview of the feminists finds itself drawn to one side over the other. In fact, I personally believe that the right is the political personification of the masculine mindset. And that is personal responsibility, individuality and strength, and the freedom to act on your own recognisance. And to also, be quite bull-headed at times and to not realise it.

And the left is the political personification of the feminine mindset. And that is groupthink, the protection of the group, the strive to not offend, to try and please everyone and the stifling imposition of safety upon those who must be mothered. And also, the attempt to be as kind to everyone as you can be, even if that kindness is enforced.

Now. Let’s examine the titles of the latest three Feministing videos.

Friday Feminist Fuck You: Heidi Harris
Friday Feminist Fuck You: Rush Limbaugh
Friday Feminist Fuck You: John McCain

This should put the nail in the coffin of any last stragglers of tough that feminism is not related to left though. Why is this important? Well it is the same effect that feminists approach you claiming that they are about equality and they just want the same rights for women’s for men - the usual canter. And then you ask them the same tired set of questions that we know will bring down every feminist such as, oh, I don’t know, if feminists are for equality then why don’t they support equality – little things like that. And you ask them about father’s rights and the ways men are oppressed and that the thing they say are oppression aren’t really oppression and then they let their guards down and they admit that - of course, they are FEMinists and of course they are for the advancement of women and the men can fend for themselves in their eyes.

Well, that’s not what you said in the first place is it sister? Where’d all this talk about equality go?

The refusal to admit that they are bound to the left is the same effect. If feminists admit to what they actually are, and that is a left leaning political movement that is for the advancement of women’s rights over men’s then they lose the benefit of some of that high falutin’ language about being for equality don’t they?

category: Gender Issues Youtube Videos Politics feministing

Comments


# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by katy on 7/30/2008 4:19 PM
Gravatar First of all, why WOULDN'T voting for a candidate based on politics be more important to a feminist than voting for a woman? I'd rather have a male president who would support things like insurance coverage for birth control than a female president who was against supporting that. That in no way makes us flaky, which it feels to me like you are implying.

And I have to point out a weird inconsistency here. I think a lot of the anti-feminist sentiment is based on the perception that we are man-hating zealots who won't tolerate anyone who doesn't agree with us. And now you're saying that feminism comes from a leftist perspective (I agree with you up to this point) which is this "feminine" mindset of striving not to offend and striving to please everyone?

Oh, and also go back and read what you said about the "masculine" mindset and the "feminine" mindset. You're basically saying that the viewpoint you agree with, and that you think should be controlling politics, is inherently masculine. And you think you're not a misogynist? Look at the way the world is right now. Maybe men need to include women in the political world because they don't know EVERYTHING and maybe the "feminine" mindset could actually contribute something positive, too.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by ArgusEyes on 7/31/2008 12:02 AM
Gravatar You can go into politics if you want to go into politics. But to stuff the numbers with women with the forethought that women will vote and act in certain ways is to essentially subvert the democratic process and to fiddle the outcomes in-line with an agenda. If more men want to become politicians then more men will be politicans, anything else is fascistic in nature.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by katy on 7/31/2008 2:12 AM
Gravatar Actually, the "democratic" process has failed to give women the degree of voice they deserve in politics ... which is as much of a voice as men. It's not democratic at all. Unless you're a male who just assumes that since HE has a voice, everyone has a voice and anyone who says they don't have the opportunity to have their concerns and contributions valued is just making it up. Don't say the misogynist ideas that you did in this post and then pretend to be some champion for democracy.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by katy on 7/31/2008 2:38 AM
Gravatar Oh, and just to clarify ... my original comment was not so much about the issue of whether we should "stuff the numbers with women" ... it was more pointing out the fact that you just blatantly stated that men SHOULD have the political power because they just naturally have a better way of thinking. (you did NOT say that they have the political power because they're more interesting in being politicians or anything like that) I really don't understand how you can make a statement like that and then pretend to view women as your equal.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by ArgusEyes on 7/31/2008 3:44 AM
Gravatar “you just blatantly stated that men SHOULD have the political power because they just naturally have a better way of thinking.”

That is a lie and a libel. I’ve never stated that to the best of my knowledge, point out where I said that or issue an apology immediately.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by katy on 7/31/2008 6:37 PM
Gravatar "In fact, I personally believe that the right is the political personification of the masculine mindset. And that is personal responsibility, individuality and strength, and the freedom to act on your own recognisance. And to also, be quite bull-headed at times and to not realise it."
This quote obviously aligns the "masculine" mindset with the qualities you value. (And then you did throw in the little negative one for good measure)

"the left is the political personification of the feminine mindset. And that is groupthink, the protection of the group, the strive to not offend, to try and please everyone and the stifling imposition of safety upon those who must be mothered. And also, the attempt to be as kind to everyone as you can be, even if that kindness is enforced."
And this quote obviously aligns the "feminine" mindset with the qualities that you do not value politically.
And this is all after you clearly showed a bias toward pure right wing politics with no room for the influence of these qualities that you have associated with the "feminine" mindset.

My problem right now isn't so much that you agree with right-wing politics, it's that you assume that these politics (which you support) are inherently masculine. And that there is no room in politics for your idea of what the inherently feminine mindset represents.

Not to mention it is this kind of strict portrayal of what it means to be masculine and what it means to be feminine that has historically made men decide that they are the ones who belong in the public sphere and women belong in the private sphere. (A lot (though not all) of those men would not have admitted, either, that they viewed women as inferior ... they would have said that it's just that women and men are different.

If you honestly cannot see the problem with this, it's not my fault so I won't apologize. How about you taking some responsibility for your words? You might not have meant for them to say all that, but they did.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by ArgusEyes on 8/1/2008 2:45 PM
Gravatar "If you honestly cannot see the problem with this, it's not my fault so I won't apologize. How about you taking some responsibility for your words?"

I'm awe-struck. All I can say is ditto quite frankly. I'll address my words with you as soon as you stop putting your own words in my mouth. And I will try to make this easier for you.

“..you just blatantly stated that men SHOULD have the political power..”

If you and I cannot agree on what this means then we are not only speaking a different language but we might as well be from different planets.

Here’ an example. I think smoking cigarettes is bad for you and a pretty silly thing to do. The equivalent to what you are doing is if someone would come up to me and say “you blatantly stated that people should be stopped from smoking”. No. no I didn’t did I?

You see, what you have to do is prove the case that I said men SHOULD have the power. I say no such thing, I waffle in this video about politics but I don’t say at any point who should have the power and I think I know my own words better than you. If I did then POINT IT OUT.
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by katy on 8/1/2008 11:25 PM
Gravatar I already POINTED IT OUT.
right-wing politics = masculine thought
therefore
good politics (in your opinion) = masculine thought

So if wanting maculine-minded people in politics doesn't mean you want men in politics necessarily, then who do you want in politics? If both men and women can think that way, why is it "masculine"?
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by ArgusEyes on 8/2/2008 8:08 AM
Gravatar
# re: Feminism and the left
Posted by Pankaj on 8/4/2008 2:10 AM
Gravatar Hey Katy,
There is no place of "groupthink, the protection of the group, the strive to not offend, to try and please everyone and the stifling imposition of safety upon those who must be mothered" in politics.

There is room for all of that in work of charity and personal sphere.

Govt is NOT a charitable organization. Does that help?
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Please add 7 and 6 and type the answer here:

The path to true gender equality

What is equality? We in the men’s rights movement believe in equality of opportunity, that as long as the playing field is level then the outcomes should not matter. The feminists tend to believe that equality of outcome is what matters, that the columns under men and women must match for there to be no more sexism. So what really matters at the end of the day is what you are comparing. Rights or outcomes? This is the foundation of our debate.