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Hello there, my name is Mark, but you might know me as ArgusEyes on YouTube. I am a centrist/right libertarian, an atheist, a men's rights activist, a scientific skeptic, an ardent individualist, a bit of a misanthrope and a cowboy programmer.

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Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

This a piece which is partially about the decisions of the thai government to block youtube at the ISP level due to a video on it that was considered offensive to the countries monarch [1]. I know someone who knows a lot about Thailand and feet are considered dirty and if you were to chase your money down the street and try to stop it by stamping on it – this could be considered defacement of the kings image and you could go to prison for it, insulting the king might not result in prison time but it would certainly get you arrested apparently.

Now the idea of this is less to protect the king it is more to protect the idea of monarchy. The real crime is more criticising monarchy rather than criticizing the king. Now this is utterly disgusting. For a government to decide which ideas should be promoted by law and which should not is utterly fascist. Even though the idea of the laws in Thailand are more to protect the idea of monarchy – it does result in more protection for the king versus normal people when you can be arrested for insulting him.

In Thailand can you be arrested for criticising a man on the street? No. Can you be arrested for criticising the king? Yes. They’re up there and we’re down here. This is my main problem with monarchy.

Under monarchy it is impossible to be a citizen, all you can ever be is a subject.

Now, I’m English as you’ve probably guessed. In England we have a royal family. They are a family of people sharing common blood who are privy to a number of perks, one of which is tax exemption, they don’t have much of a role in government but their view counts. And who are they? A bunch of fuckwads!

I like America, in America anyone can be the president, there is no tiered society, everyone is at the same level. Under monarchy there is a two tiered society. You can work hard and make an impact but there is a level you cannot even reach, a level that you are born into by an accident of birth.

Now this is not the same thing as being born into a rich family vs being born into a poor family, both are subject to the same rules of society and both can make it with a little effort. For the royals there is a whole different set of rules.

So in summary the idea of monarchy should be ridiculed because it is ridiculous. Contempt is the only appropriate reaction to the contemptible. For the UK to be considered a free and modern culture we should abandon our old fashioned models of monarchy throw them on their rear ends to fend for themselves.

Sources
[1] http://www.physorg.com/news94922984.html
[2] http://www.physorg.com/preview95072199.html

Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:57 PM
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Comments

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Bega on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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I am a Thai people I agree with you everything.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ArgusEyes on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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Cheers mate, do you live in Thailand at the moment?

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: I am coming on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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Not all Ture.
Please make a ture research with educated Thais befor you write any of stories.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: democracy on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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We believe that as human in nature ; everyone is equally

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: thaifolk on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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?He is not a superman. It is truly irrelevant to the fact that he can do no wrong. I love you words "who are they, a bunch of fuckwards"

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: thai on 5/11/2008 8:38 PM
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I am an educated Thai person. What you are writing is totally true.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Tee on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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I'm Thai and the King doesn't vote. I have written some fact here. http://www.growlichat.com/blog/2007/04/08/misunderstanding-thailand-lese-majeste-the-thai-king-and-those-offensive-clips-onyoutube/ This mess all happen because of misunderstandings with no attempt to correct it. :)

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Dang on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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I'm Thai but I like England and America.

I hate the super man which we can't criticising.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: thai in vietnam on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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you are absolutely right, my friend. Still if you see the current Thai King as bad, wait till you see his son, mate. :D Now that's one bad dude! The country is going to go up in flames, I tell ya.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ArgusEyes on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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Right, and when his son is in there are going to be a lot more people criticising him and facing persecution for doing so. What will they think about their piffling lese majeste laws then? Will they be grateful that a loser king is being protected?

Also, I didn’t say that the current king is bad! I am fully aware that the Thai people love their king and from what I have heard about him, that love seems to be fully deserved. He seems to be a top guy.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Mai on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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These are links for Thai people :
http://thaitkns.googlepages.com/intro

http://thaitkns.googlepages.com/chapter1

http://thaitkns.googlepages.com/sinn

Chapter 15
http://tknsthai.googlepages.com/home


The above links for Thai poelple who are never know the truth.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: unknown on 5/11/2008 8:39 PM
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I am a Thai too and I do agree with your article.

I do hate myself to be born as a slave in this monkey land.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: unknown on 5/11/2008 8:40 PM
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I have dreamed of the People's revolution to free all Thai's people from this long-end traditional chain!

Please help us, the rest of the world!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Antimonarchy on 5/11/2008 8:40 PM
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Why some people are still being God icon in the world ?

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: thestudent09 on 5/11/2008 8:40 PM
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no in america you are born in to a class its just much more subtle than it is in england or thailand

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Mozzie on 5/11/2008 8:42 PM
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Yeah sure it's a freedom of speech. End of a story. But the motive behind that speech and how well reserached it is are very concerned to some people. Especially for a person or the people involved. And since this is as big as one country's Lese of Majeste Laws. I'm not surprised you'd received negative comments. What they commented is what you call "Freedom of Speech" The end of a story. What amused me is you even bothered to be sarcastic about it and tell the whole world what a group of angry mob says.

First of all, I must thank you for your concerns about The Thai's Lese Majeste Laws. In fact the King himself has told the Thai people that it is ok to criticize him.

Secondly as you've mentioned that all your knowledge and information received is from one of your mates. Who supposedly has been in Thailand for a bit, and he knows a lot about Thailand. This is a very weak source of your information. Do you really think it is worth trying to criticize one country's traditional laws which was made hundreds years ago. The Thai people have lived with it, we haven't really been concerned about Lese Majeste Laws. We are actually content with the way it is.

You may think for the Thai people that the lese majeste laws is outdated and unfashionable for the 21st century. Why? Thank YOU!! But honestly? we dont need it changed. We like the way it is and even if we aint I dont see the current lese of Majeste laws has made any signicificant impacts on the Thai people.

You may think that defacing a King's picture or portrait is ok for you and perhaps your country "England". In Thailand and most asian countries the aspect of respecting elder or a more well recpected persons is seen as normal. Why would a person in his/her right mind go out to deface any person's picture or portrait. It does sound stupid, doesnt it? Although the punishment laid out by the lese of majeste laws is um... very harsh to a certain extent. You would be surprised how many cases His Majesty The King has pardoned them for.

The fact that you criticized Thai's Lese of Majeste Laws and admired the US's society where there is no royal family over there and thus creating a different life style. So you cant really compare to two countries and totally different cultures. You probably have to go read some books about asian countries, the way people here think, the way of life and perhaps you would understand what we are about.

If you ever looked at each state's laws in the US. You would be totally stunned how many of them are stupid for example in Blythe, California. "You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows." Now let me just say this every freaking country has its own laws and thus it doesn't mean that they have to change it for a certain group where they are not even native of that country.

It is pointless to even pin point that "Thai King this, Thai King that", because it's not gonna change anything when the Thai people isn't as fired up about the Lese of Majeste Laws Change as you are obviously.

Mate, Look at the world differently! There are some areas where some people dont wanna talk about it and they are not forced to talk about it. Heck, do they even bother to make it public... The fact that The Thai King has done superb job during his time. To be honest I dont see the need or desire to criticize His Majesty The King to start with. And I could care less if the Lese of Majeste Laws exists or not. He has been top bloke all the way through his throne.

For your own sake, mate, if anything needs changed at all and be worth your time right now?. Here's a flash for you, try to persuade your government to withdraw the troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.

It is easy to criticize something but before you do you have to understand the differences in culture, way of thinking, way of life and perhaps religion. Finally, think before you speak.

Oh almost forgot, about His Majesty The King's only son. Keep in mind that neither the King or royal family has any powers in running the country. Although they could be of influence to a certain degree. It just makes me think that why would His Majesty the King's son not be a Great King? He has never intervened the Thai Government. Whether his private life is a mess or not, I could care less. He's still a decent guy. End of the story!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: AK on 5/11/2008 8:42 PM
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I'm a Thai. Honestly I really appreciate your blog, mate. You help clarify a dull subject to be more opened. The world never stops running. So do we. We are in a dynamic world!! Is it unfair and foolish to ourselves to let some groups of people control our rights as a man. Are they supermen?? Or they are just jerked-asses who try to maintain absolte power and belongings, which no one take it after death. If someone says the Thai king has provided the most valueble things that no one can get, is that logical? In contrast, what has he taken from citizens since his family established?
P.S.
To Mr.Mozzie who gave a comment below, I DO NOT AGREE with his comment esp. using the word "WE". You wrote "We don't need it". I am sorry to say that I and many Thais do not have the same beliefs and perspectives about the Thai King. For this reason, I do not think that it is logical to include that everyone(we) is like you. Please take a logic class once in your life.

P.S.S.
Thanks for the space to leave a comment.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: passingby..not on 5/11/2008 8:42 PM
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heh ^^

i agreed with you mostly

as you can see there's an exception

we're trying to do everything that we can

to be like you guys, the civilization of western country .

I like most of em dont get me wrong

but everynow and then people who are not holding anything but themselve in their heart. they're just like Animal which its kinda ugly ya know i dont mind them sometime they would just go around doin.. ya know their things :P
anyway lol the point is

Because Every human being its no matter what where how you were born you can always be the one.. the one that people will praise after the days you die the one that would have enough wealth to suppose 3-4 generation from you... people who have actually done something great!
what do those people gets from those
the guy who tried to get your country back together after there was change of houses from many clan after there were wars that brave guys "the man" who ran down the battlefield and led millions of people to fight for their so called "homeland" or well "homeland-to-be"
people praise those people as a god
they obeyed cuz they trusted the man
because there was nobody else in that time to protect their family their home
their Children.. but as the time past no more wars no more colonial some of those people that decended from "The man"
some of em may not be that good compare to the ancestor but SOME of em are doin their best to make the world better in part that they can... what'd happen if there no Kings no Monarchy no democrazy
from time to time we human have things to hold on to back in the day were sword spears canon,yesterday it was pen and paper, Today... its a freaking good internet and computer ... we always fight and i facking love it !

i wish we could be friend you sounded very reasonable person its a good thing

some secret better stay as secret
some truth better stay hidden
some fact better stay as lie
but it'd never heard to know em all ;)

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ... on 5/11/2008 8:43 PM
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The Revolution: Revolutionist sent telegraph to provincial garrison said that "There is going to be rebel against the King in Bangkok. Come to Bangkok ASAP". Then they moved a small forces to capture major royal members and used them as hostage. They dropped propaganda paper all over Bangkok and promised people a good and better life. They wrote their owns version of constitution with a section giving them absolute power and protection for their entire party.

1-6 months after revolution: Brought Royal family and royalist to below ground level. No one wants to befriend with royalist or even stay near them. The royal army in NE of Thailand rebeled. The fight was really dramatic, royalist member shooting their own thai people with tear while the revolutionist yelled "Die! You rebel". Royalist loas the war. The revolutionist executed and imprisoned any army's officer who refused to support the war.

After the war and King Rama 7th dethroned: Without any idea of what "democracy" meant, a lot of commoners just live their shitty life like usual but waiting for the new "democratic king" to be assign. The rightful candidate was not chosen because he was a high rank royal member. So they chose a small family with 2 boys (one girl) who got a commoner's mother to be King.

King Ananda (Rama 8th): He was accepted by government and people but never happy with a dictatorship of the government, and mostly; his unrightful place. The King secretly plan to give the throne back his uncle.

King Ananda died: Instead of letting Thai people killing each other again, the king's brother made the greatest sacrificed. .... you know what he did...

King Rama the 9th: the dictator government still fighting with each other using "democracy" as their accuse for 50 years. Thai people still lived their shitty life until today.

The fact from my part: Royal family start from "nothing" since the revolution. There is no tax exemption (?) for the royal family. The King is rich because of a contribution of Thai people and mostly their royalist subject. How come they become this rich? Because they stick together, there are like 20,000 of us working and living a cheap life for 50 years trying to rebuild what we lost. The law said that the King is above the politic and it's been that way forever. Although, the law also said that who ever disrespect the King must go to "blah blah...", the royal family didnt write that law. And both King Rama 8th and 9th were/are powerless, young, innocent who only got support from Thai people. There are a lot of people got imprisoned because they disrepect the king, but that wasnt the King's order. I swear to god. We wants Thailand be open-minded land, too. People can not disrespect Buddist, too, right?

My point is; just leave us be. We lives a normal life like you, we got a family just like you. We go to work, pay tax and buy groceries just like you. We put the King on his throne and try so hard to gives those high rank royalist what they deserve FROM our own pocket, right? The king doesnt have to do all goodies work for the people but he still do. There are a lot of bad things that they did in the past and present but because THEY are just a common human like you. You have no idea how hard we was decipline since we were young. That's why it's almost gurantee that royal decendants will get in a good universities or get a good job bacauce of that unhuman dicipline we've gone through.

Sorry for my English...i really tried.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: pETER on 8/20/2008 10:29 AM
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Remember what happens in Paris 200+ years ago?

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ArgusEyes on 8/21/2008 6:57 PM
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I dunno pETER. What?

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Pang on 9/4/2008 10:17 AM
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The reason why thailand has become a land of pros is bcos of the kings doing. thanks to the king i got to bang so many sweet thai girls.. Whoo

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Tada... on 1/15/2009 1:59 AM
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"Thai king Bhumibol Adulyadej is the world's richest monarch with a personal fortune worth $35 billion, according to Forbes
magazine.

Forbes said that the 80-year-old Thai king's estimated net worth increased sevenfold during the past year because of the transparency of his riches which include over 3,000 acres of prime real estate land in Bangkok, a stake in a major bank and huge holdings in the Siam Cement company."

Of course, there is tax exemption for the royal family, plus they are untouchable. The king did all goodies work for the people and for his own good as creating a semi-divine image (to protect his assets and all of their privilege as well?).

If the royal family really were not above the laws, it would have been different matter. Bankokians know so well how often a day the roads have been blocked during rush hours for them.

Actually I think Thai people have been brainwashed to obey, not much to think nor analysis about any monarchical matters.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ArgusEyes on 1/15/2009 3:18 AM
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I agree. The kind of emotional reactions to my video prove this.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Tada... on 1/15/2009 5:00 AM
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At least you can say something about British monarchy both good and bad, but you must say only good thing about Thai monarchy. Luckily I have decided to live in Australia, where I can say whatever I want to.
I wish there would have been more Thai people dare to say things like you did!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Tada... on 1/15/2009 5:20 AM
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Well, I do not mind if Thai monarchy would be like Japanese one. They simply do not have any power at all.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Tada... on 1/19/2009 10:13 AM
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Australian writer was jailed because he wrote the truth about Thai crown prince. Most of Thai know about this fact as well. <sighs>

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: I'm Thai on 2/6/2009 9:23 PM
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Shame on YOU! I love Thai King!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: $$$$ on 4/11/2009 8:02 PM
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Thai king is the richest king in the world's monarchy.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: ... on 4/18/2009 6:35 PM
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There is no such thing called equality in this world, you think the US is a place where everything can be publicly expressed, well, the US government has their own ways of keeping secrets and ways of secretly killing people, you just don't know those.
I am a Thai citizen, and I think criticizing on something you don't really know or understand is uneducated. If you come to Thailand, you will understand our culture, and you will know why we love our King.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: QUAY on 4/22/2009 1:38 AM
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บัดซบจริงๆเลย กษัตริย์ไทย

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: idang on 4/23/2009 3:37 AM
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the thaiking's family make the traffic jam.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: idang on 4/23/2009 3:38 AM
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the thai king's family make the traffic jam.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: idang on 4/23/2009 3:39 AM
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the thai king's family make the traffic jam alltime.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Land of No Freedom on 4/23/2009 9:16 AM
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Hi I'm Thai and totally agree with you. For less mejesty law is the way monarch control and empower for century.
For this contry everytime we have strong government, they will destroy it. Because when democracy strong, monarch will naturally weak. So, Coup' is they style to empower and make young generation stupid about politic so they can keep their power so no.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Chaisak on 4/23/2009 11:55 AM
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Hopefully all the comments here are pure and NOT PAID. Or just by "want to comment", i.e., nobody is good but me.

Suck jing jing

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: tt on 5/6/2009 7:54 PM
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The King, he has 3,000 royal projects to help millions of Thai people in up-country. How about you guys? What have you done to help others beside criticizing and try to discourage the one who do good things? Tell me one project that you have initiated or even involved to help others. I do doubt that maybe some of you don't even support or help you parents. don't have to talk about helping others like Him.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: god is the king on 7/29/2009 12:25 AM
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The world is created for all being equally.If majority of thai people
prefer monarchy system, it is fine.If not, it is also fine.The point is we living in the same world should share responsibilities and wealth to our society.The royal family should also do their responsibilities,sharing their wealth which is given to them directy or indirectly by the people and give back their wealth generously or even equally portion.If not whaat is the use to have them sitting there acting like god who can not make rain, move the sun etc except telling people they are godlike whom no one can touch!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Be open minded. on 7/31/2009 2:06 AM
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what ever will be, will be according to people karma.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: thai on 8/7/2009 7:31 PM
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An educated Thai citizen would never criticize the King because they know what is really going on.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Pete the painter on 9/15/2009 2:57 PM
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I can't pretend to be an expert on Thailand and Thai culture but i have learned many things about the Country since i have been friends with someone who comes from Thailand.
She has lived in England for many years so i can talk about these things without offending her.
It is true that most Thai people do love the King but there is minority of people who obviously don't and they should be free to say so. Remember critism can be anything. Even people who love the King might still be critical of something he has done. Surely no human being is perfect.
It is worth noting though that although this law as always excisted people were rarely convicted until this goverment gained power.
Also here in the UK we have not always been free to say what we want about the monarchy. There used to be many treason laws that used to excist that prevented us from saying many things.
Thailand is obviously a Country that has a culture that many outsiders will never understand but surely a Country where most people are buddhist this law should have no place.
I personally i don't agree with having a monarchy but if a Country decides to still have one people like us should be entitled to our opinion.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Roongroj on 9/26/2009 1:22 AM
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I just don't understand one simple easy thing.

If they are good, why they and their regime just keep telling, broadcasting hour after hour thru millions of media across country that they are good? These message looks more like propaganda when degree is excessive and intentional.

If they are indeed generous, why they keep jailing people that doubt their goodness? It doesn't matter if i'm educated or not, but when i doubt, i just need to do research, to questions, etc. This is far worse than 14th century dark edge.

I tink the day that the le majest law is lifted will be the day that the history will be changed. If there's no jail treat, the fact/information will flow like crazy. And they will be gone in hours, like ashes.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Mike on 11/5/2009 3:18 AM
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Thailand is one of the most corrupt, dishonest countries on earth. Thailand is so bad, that foreign tourists at the airport were being targeted by police gangs and accused of shoplifting, and arrested. Thai people in general are very very dishonest. We were with a group of friends in L.A. and one of the Thai people in our group stole a customer's iPod. We forced her to return it. You can not trust thai people what so ever. It's not just to tourists that Thais are dishonest to, they are also dishonest and sneaky with each other. You can't survive in Thailand unless you are unethical, corrupt, and dishonest. It's a way of life for them.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Nat on 12/10/2009 4:18 PM
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Srry Mike... I know we Thai people are like that >_<
Thai people love to cheat... the end justifies the means... kids cheat on tests, people make pirated stuff, mafia rig lottery draws... etc.

Those who think the king is some sort of angel should read Machiavelli's "the prince"... you will know that the image the king and his PR team are trying to portray is ultimately an illusion... and that the notion of a perfectly virtuous monarch is unrealistic

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: A Thai Girl on 12/18/2009 3:57 PM
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hate this system!! so many Thais are just so crazy with the King(rather the image that has been created for the King!) It has been like this for many years...long before this King, but it will end here.
People are fooled with the image for this King but the prince doesn't really have the same respect for the prince.

Read "The King never smiles"! though if u r in Thailand...be certain that its banned here.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: swc on 1/29/2010 4:28 AM
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Long live the king

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Deja on 2/15/2010 1:44 PM
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Once Chinese says "The genuine gold will not be afraid of fire". I truly believe in The genuine of the King, the Lèse majesté law is not necessary. It should be removed.

Truly beleiver

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Deja on 2/15/2010 1:49 PM
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Please stop say bad things about Thais, we just follow the foot step.

Truly believers

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: Mndy on 2/26/2010 8:51 PM
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When someone say that "We love our king"
Please, just don't say "WE", because we=Thais and not everyone in Thailand love the king.
The royal family just a bunch of crack head!

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: januar on 3/5/2010 9:20 PM
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It should be end of the system that is to take advantage of poor people. The poor serve the rich.
Thailand need more foreigner to come to change.
Stop to crawl.
Stop to walk four legs like dogs to the royalty.
My dad much walk four legs to give money to him and take photo and pround very much even our family do not have money.

# re: Thai king under monarchy you are a subject not a citizen

Posted by: namkang on 3/5/2010 9:27 PM
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It's true. I used to believe on the king and yellow shirt. Now, time change and I know now. It's time to change. I educated from USA and I get experience of the freedom life there. In Thailand, we can not do everythings we want to. The system control people. I am lecturer but I must follow the system. Poor country, poor system.

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