Global warming - Avoiding the questions that matter

posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:59 PM

Global warming is a subject which I approach in a purely non ideological way. I have no affiliations to big oil and I have no affiliations to anti-corporatism. This is a subject in which I genuinely want to find the truth on and always have.

You could look at the populist discussion in the media on this topic as a parallel between two documentaries. The most popular of which is Al Gore’s documentary supporting man made global warming versus the documentary refuting it called the “great global warming swindle”. Both of them are very convincing, al Gore’s doc is slightly more emotional and contains less science and facts.

But first is a big problem that plagues any debate on these issues. And That is the usage of the word “global warming”. When the words global warming are used on the news it normally refers to manmade global warming, and scientists who seek to prove manmade global warming normally reveal studies talking about rising co2 levels or the retreat of glaciers or the melting of the polar icecaps and assume on top of that that mankind is causing it all.

The issue here is whether this warming is caused by humans. I have always been very frustrated by the lack of focus on this aspect of the debate. Which always seemed to me to be the only important question.

How much of the temperature rise is due to humans.

The conventional surveys reporting on the status of the poor polar bears or the melting of the ice caps, support what we all know and shouldn’t debate.

Which is that the planet is actually warming.

Which is not under debate at all! Both the documentaries have temperature charts in them in which you can see that the temperature of the planet is wither going up or going down, it is never in a straight line, it is always changing. And if you think about it, why would it always be constant, it makes more sense that it changes over time.

To me, though when people talk about the scientific consensus being settled then they are referring to this. But I fear that far too many people make an ideological jump from the real evidence that the planet is warming to the assumption that humans are causing it all.

The argument for human caused global warming hasn’t changed much. It goes along the lines that CO2 contributes to the greenhouse effect which in turn causes a rise in temperature, and human industry produces CO2. But how much CO2 is there? How much is caused by humans? These are burning questions.

Be wary of people who do not address the weaknesses of their own arguments.

Also, the question as to whether CO2 causes temperature change is under fire. In the al gore documentary he shows a chart correlating warmth to CO2 levels, but if you look closely at the chart then you see that the temperature levels leads the CO2 level, therefore it is impossible that CO2 drives the temperature, in fact it seems to be the other way around.

The CO2 causes global warming argument seems to be the only argument that the man-made global warming advocates promote. However, more C02 is caused by animals and rotting plant matter and the oceans then by humans. Also, look at the forest around me, its beautiful. These trees and this plant matter is releasing carbon dioxide as we speak, we are made of carbon. It is not a pollutant, it is a part of life.

The best argument for moving array from non renewable sources is that they are non-renewable. They will run our some say and we shouldn’t be left holding our nobs when that happens. This angle is rarely stressed though.

But what is the harm of taking action to limit emissions? Well, it puts more of a stranglehold on businesses, it holds back industry, limits developing countries, and can result in some pretty Orwellian laws such as a recently proposed carbon emission points where you need to buy points for your own carbon emissions. These laws, whilst being well meaning should not be made until we are sure that our carbon emissions does cause global warming.

To sum it up. I am still not sure what to think. If you asked me whether I believed in man made global warming only a year ago I would have said yes, mainly because of it was the consensus. But then consensus can be wrong. It is generally a consensus that feminists represent equality and I don’t believe that. I moved to a middle ground and now I will probably land on the side that it is not man caused. But one thing is clear, that we need more discussion on many points. Such as the role of the sun in warming, does CO2 drive temperature? And is the cause really man made.

category: Youtube Videos Politics Skepticism

Comments


# re: Global warming - Avoiding the questions that matter
Posted by ClimateCriminal on 5/11/2008 8:44 PM
Gravatar The doubts that are often expressed in the media and exemplified by the UK Channel 4 Great Global Warming Swindle are junk science and have been thoroughly debunked. Within the scientific community, there is no debate about whether climate change is happening. The debate is now about how much? What will the effects be? Global warming is happening now. The cause is man-made CO2. The people who deny climate change have all been in the pay of the energy companies. http://www.realclimate.org/irea_letterJul06.pdf All of your concerns have been answered, yes there are some uncertainties, but I refer you to the science. Don't take my word for this, I am not a climatologist: - You wrote 'Also, the question as to whether CO2 causes temperature change is under fire. In the al gore documentary he shows a chart correlating warmth to CO2 levels, but if you look closely at the chart then you see that the temperature levels leads the CO2 level, therefore it is impossible that CO2 drives the temperature, in fact it seems to be the other way around.' Answer See http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?s=co2+leads+temperature&submit=Search&qt=&q=&cx=009744842749537478185%3Ahwbuiarvsbo&client=google-coop-np&cof=GALT%3A808080%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A34374A%3BVLC%3AAA8610%3BAH%3Aleft%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A66AA55%3BLC%3A66AA55%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A66AA55%3BGIMP%3A66AA55%3BFORID%3A11%3B&searchdatabase=site You wrote 'The CO2 causes global warming argument seems to be the only argument that the man-made global warming advocates promote. However, more CO2 is caused by animals and rotting plant matter and the oceans then by humans. Also, look at the forest around me, its beautiful. These trees and this plant matter is releasing carbon dioxide as we speak, we are made of carbon. It is not a pollutant, it is a part of life.' Answer Yes true – but. Without humans burning fossil fuels there would be a dynamic balance between CO2 emitted and CO2 consumed. But now we are burning huge quantities of carbon, causing massive deforestation and warming the planet. The isotopic ratio of carbon reveals that increasing amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere is anthropogenic. See http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11638 I refer you to the many thousands of highly qualified scientists, including: The IPCC, who are supported and validated by: - The American National Academy of Sciences National Academies of Science of the G8, Brazil and India The Union of Concerned Scientists The American Geophysical Union The American Meteorological Society The American Association for the Advancement of Science. There can be no doubt that the majority of independent scientifically based climatological opinion is agreed that climate change is real and that it is most likely caused by anthropogenic CO2 and that action to reduce emissions needs to start now. However, there is also a growing body of evidence that the public perception of doubt and uncertainty over climate change and its causes is largely being manufactured through disinformation emanating from vested interests and the energy companies in particular. Exxon-Mobil has been identified as one of the main contributors of this disinformation by the union of Concerned Scientists, see http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf . Some links www.realclimate.org http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/ http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462-climate-change-a-guide-for-the-perplexed.html http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/02/how-to-talk-to-global-warming-sceptic.html http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=6229 http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/05/01/1058/#more-1058 www.monbiot.com/archives/2000/03/16/modified-truth/ Union of Concerned Scientists www.ucsusa.org www.jri.org.uk/news/Critique_Channel4_Global_Warming_Swindle.pdf http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/ http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/3 http://www.royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=13619
# re: Global warming - Avoiding the questions that matter
Posted by unknown on 5/11/2008 8:44 PM
Gravatar let's face it, ppl are apes that think what the tv tells em. so if tv thinks something is a problem, so do the apes. facts dont really matter, such as that one can google "growing ice caps". or that the suns radiation level has risen as it should and that causes the whole solar system to warm up a little. i could also use that 2,5 trillion a year tax on breathing out co2 but Al Gore and his UN corporation beat me to it.
# re: Global warming - Avoiding the questions that matter
Posted by A3n on 5/11/2008 8:44 PM
Gravatar I was stunned after watching 'the great global warming swindle', but then I searched a bit and found some stuff that convinced me that humans do contribute to global warming in a significant deal:
first I searched on wikipedia for criticism on both documentaries and found out only 2 or 3 scientists dissagreed about some ice-cap facts in al gores movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvinient_Truth#Criticism

but then watch this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Global_Warming_Swindle#Claims_made_in_the_film
The whole article is just criticism of the 'documentary' and scientists who have been taken out of context.
(thinking of Loose Change here)

After reading that it is clear that 'great global warming swindle' is nearly completely biased, and al Gore's movie almost seem to get no criticism at all.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/
that should answer all questions (atleast it looks like it does) concerning global warming. (however I didn't have the courage yet to go trough it entirely)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC
"The IPCC does not carry out research, nor does it monitor climate or related phenomena. One of the main activities of the IPCC is to publish special reports on topics relevant to the implementation of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC).[1] (The UNFCCC is an international treaty that acknowledges the possibility of harmful climate change; implementation of the UNFCCC led eventually to the Kyoto Protocol.) The IPCC bases its assessment mainly on peer reviewed and published scientific literature. [2] The IPCC is only open to member states of the WMO and UNEP."

The real question is:
how much can we do ?
Post Comment
Title *
Name *
Email
Url
Comment *  
Please add 1 and 5 and type the answer here:

The path to true gender equality

What is equality? We in the men’s rights movement believe in equality of opportunity, that as long as the playing field is level then the outcomes should not matter. The feminists tend to believe that equality of outcome is what matters, that the columns under men and women must match for there to be no more sexism. So what really matters at the end of the day is what you are comparing. Rights or outcomes? This is the foundation of our debate.